65 replies to this topic

[kevd7]

That's why the folks used to say: we're having a ball (wink wink, nudge nudge, know what I mean?;-)).

clever. give me a pot of dark aromatic coffee and i'm happy as a clam...."as a clam", wonder where that one came from Jan

[Winehousedrunk]

^Indeed, Kev. And now you've made me wonder why Clamity Jane was called so.

Edited by Winehousedrunk, 07 June 2009 - 09:09 PM.

[kevd7]

another one, "dumb as oysters"?

[tikipeacock]

Are oysters dumb, Kev? Do they even have a brain or central nervous system? Now that would be an interesting conversation while smoking pot.

Obviously pot is in a different than hard drugs. I'm not a regular ganja smoker but I enjoy it occasionally. It's no worse than drinking a beer. Probably less harmful. God knows I've gotten myself into way more trouble after drinking many beers than sitting around doing bong hits.
As far as being happy and doing drugs, who knows? There are some people who can do drugs recreationally without becoming addicts. I'm not one of them, but everyone is different. Who knows why some people get addicted and others don't. It's not an easy question and there are no easy answers. But I don't think you can say across the board that if someone is content with their life that they wouldn't do drugs.

[kevd7]

i agree with you Tiki (as usual ). who's to say why some folks become addicts and others don't. all i know is, i'd much rather be around folks who are tokin' than those slamming back shots. they can be very messy

[suestev07]

http://www.telegraph...themselves.html

We all know this, but I thought it was interesting anyhow....hopefully, she can start to feel very worthy...soon....
Kate Moss and Amy Winehouse: the girls who just can't help themselves



Max Pemberton
Published: 12:02AM BST 23 Aug 2007




A match made in hell: Pete Doherty and Kate Moss


Max Pemberton reveals why women like Kate Moss and Amy Winehouse are unable to stop their destructive ways
They make you want to bang their heads together. As a doctor I'm aware that this intervention has no clinically proven therapeutic effect, but the desire to do it is overwhelming. Kate Moss, according to rumours, is now back with her on/off boyfriend Pete Doherty, despite claims that she had cut all ties with the man she dubbed "the slug" (because "he's slimy and leaves a trail of mess in his wake").


She has apparently been spied sneaking out of the hotel where Doherty was staying, having walked free from court when a police blunder meant he escaped being sent to jail (yet again). He had faced imprisonment after breaching bail conditions and has so far managed to avoid jail despite a string of convictions for drugs offences.
It makes you wonder exactly what you have to do before you get slung in prison these days. Kate's family and management are said to be in despair that the two are together again. Perhaps they could take solace in the fact that the family of the award-winning singer Amy Winehouse are also pulling out their hair over her recent behaviour, which includes drug and alcohol abuse.
There have been allegations that Blake Fielder-Civil, her husband of three months - they married on a whim in Miami - introduced her to class A drugs. Despite this, she remains loyal to him, refusing to go into rehab unless he accompanied her.
So what is it about such highly successful women, who you'd think could have their pick of eligible men around the globe, that keeps them running back to such characters? Neither Amy or Kate are stupid. They must know that they are at risk from their respective beaux pulling them into a quagmire of misery and self-destruction.
But for some people there is something strangely seductive about such relationships. W H Auden wrote: "Almost all of our relationships begin, and most of them continue, as forms of mutual exploitation, a mental or physical barter, to be terminated when one or both parties run out of goods.
" Pete Doherty and Blake Fielder-Civil have something to gain, but what's in it for Kate and Amy? Could the appeal of these relationships lie specifically in the fact that they are so painful, so destructive? Psychologists might argue that such cases are part of an acting out of a malignant, deep rooted self-hatred.
People engage in these types of relationship as a form of self-punishment, usually in response to a notion of perceived personal failure. The fact that Kate and Amy are rich, talented and famous doesn't matter - maybe, deep down, they don't think they are worthy of anything better, despite family, friends and legions of fans trying to tell them otherwise.
I have sat countless times in A & E talking to women - and it is usually women - in destructive relationships, who are adamant that they can't live with their partner but can't live without them either. "But I love him, doctor", they say, as I suggest they pack their bags and run for the hills.
It is impossible to make them wake up and see what their partner is doing to them, for the simple reason that they already know but choose to ignore it. While the treatment they endure at the hands of their partners would prove too much for most people, it is precisely this which is what makes them stay. It's the old adage of "treat them mean to keep them keen".
Simply haranguing them to leave their partners isn't enough and rarely produces lasting results. They can't leave their partner because, subconsciously, they feel that they are worthless and this is all they deserve. It's a notoriously difficult psychological position to shift people from, because it operates on the fundamental level of how people perceive themselves. And, as Kate and Amy's family could testify, it's heartbreaking to stand on the sidelines and watch it happen.
One way for women in such situations to be able to extradite themselves from these sorts of relationships is to address their underlying self-esteem issues through psychotherapy. But this can be a long, drawn-out process and it's frequently too painful for people to address what they have spent so long burying.
Perversely, in the early stages of psychological work, it's often felt to be less painful for them to continue in their destructive relationship than it is to face up to their own problems. Substance addiction is similar to the addiction people exhibit to these patho-logical relation-ships; it's about erad-ication and denial of the self.
It's no coincidence that both Amy and Kate have been associated with other self-destructive behaviours, such as alcohol or drug misuse; if someone else isn't hurting them, they do it to themselves. These kinds of relationships are often also associated with co-dependency, whereby one person enters into a tumultuous relationship with another which they then become consumed by, rather than address their own problems.
This invariably means that the relationship is ultimately unfulfilling emotionally, but it is precisely this nihilistic quality that is so appealing. But both parties suffer as a result. These women collude with their drug-taking partners, who further perpetuate the cycle of self-destruction by rewarding them with their love and attention.
Poor Kate and Amy. They'll never find someone suitable to love until they start to love themselves a little bit more. All their friends and families can do is hope this happens before things get any worse for them. And resist the temptation to bang their heads together.

• The Daily Telegraph's Dr Max Pemberton is a psychiatrist