44 replies to this topic

[pearljo]

It is admirable that many of you are color-blind, but the reality is, Tam is right. Same genre of music, Amy Winehouse is getting the accolades, fame and recognition. I speak for myself, but I don't think we are criticizing Amy Winehouse for being Caucasian, please don't take it that way.

Sounds like you're blaming Amy for living because, God knows, if there never was this honky Jewish girl, then certainly Sharon Jones would have written Back to Black and Frank by the time she was 22 and conquered the world.

[Rockesquirrel]

Sounds like you're blaming Amy for living because, God knows, if there never was this honky Jewish girl, then certainly Sharon Jones would have written Back to Black and Frank by the time she was 22 and conquered the world.

Apples and oranges, apples and oranges. Phil, I usually admire some of your posts, and agree with them wholeheartedly, but I'm pretty hurt by your accusations.

There is a lovely song, called, "I Will Always Love You", which was originally written by Dolly Parton. Whitney Houston later performed the same song, but with screechier volume. Now, am I pissed at Dolly Parton, because she IMHO, did a better version of the song? It really doesn't matter, since she is getting paid for it, no matter who sings it, and how lousy the remake is.

IMHO, this is bringing out some rather ugly sides to folk, and it is not cool at all. All Tam and I did, was point out the disparities between Amy Winehouse and Sharon Jones. Both of these ladies share the same producer, Mark Ronson. Reality is, Sharon Jones, is older, chunkier, and not as pleasing to most people, and yes, she is Afro-American. I think the author of that article, also hit a nerve, too. We just pointed out that difference, we didn't accuse Amy of committing any crimes, nor did we accuse any of you. Yes, Amy is going thru her troubles, but so is Whitney Houston, Natalie Cole, and many others. Let's pray that all of these people get thru the tough times, so we can listen to their wonderful music.

Let's just agree to disagree. All of the posters in here are of a diverse range, from around the world, let's respect each other and remember that not everyone has the same POV.

[Dani624]

I understand where Tam and others are coming from because the whole fascination with Amy is wow she is white and sounds like not just a black woman, but a black woman older than her 24 years of age. It captivates people when someone not black sings soul music and does it exceptionally well. Imagine if Justin Timberlake where a black dude..he would be just another falsetto singing tenor dancing around. The fact that he is white gives him the advantage of a fascination that has been present for years in the music industry.. Blue eyed soul...it surprises people every time because the color that most attach to soul and Jazz music is a black one. The reverse can be applied to artist like Lenny Kravitz and Jimi Hendrix who perform what some people would call "white music". People don't understand it. The politics of music and race will always be prevalent no matter how much we hate it. Many black people will be territorial of the music we created because we don't want it taken from us. The way so many things have.Think Big Mama Thornton and Elvis. This is why I don't see racism or the division between races ever fading. So many changes would have to be made.

[gretski101]

if amy winehouse were black i would love her just as much,
the thing is most black famous singers these days love to do more R&B stuff, like rihanna, beyonce, some alicia keys, jordin sparks etc etc.
but amy winehouse does the old classic soul stuff, and same with joss stone, i think its just a coinsidence they are white,
if beyonce did music like amy i would love her music just as much.
i think its because black singers usually have a bigger stronger better voice (dono if im stereotyping) but thats what i find, and i just think people are so amazed by amy because she is so small and you would never expect her to belt it out like that,
i dono.

[pearljo]

Apples and oranges, apples and oranges. Phil, I usually admire some of your posts, and agree with them wholeheartedly, but I'm pretty hurt by your accusations.

Sorry, didn't mean for anyone to feel put down.

[lyricgenius]

My opinion is, Amy transcends race. And she substantively acts that way in her personal dealings too (despite that racist chant episode). Which is something I greatly admire about her. It's too bad more people aren't as advanced in that regard as she is, including a lot of the people who criticize her. Not trying to put down anyone here or say that Amy doesn't have any flaws or that race is not an issue in the world.

[Alan48]

Sorry, didn't mean for anyone to feel put down.

No fault on your part, Phil. Racism, in whatever form, should always be openly discredited. And those who seek to fight it need to know how and when to pick their battles, and to not waste ammunition in sanctimoniously demonstrating the rightness of their cause, wounding innocent bystanders, and going through life constantly shooting themselves in the foot.

[kevd7]

don't know. I would have bought the album regardless of how it was packaged. It's damn good soul music first and foremost. I could really give a hoot about what race the artist is. I would never buy a Timberlake album because I grew up with soul music. I don't know what he's selling but it ain't soul imo. Authentic soul. Amy has it on B2B. She is the first one to pay her respects to those black artists that were instrumental as muses for her project, so, I just don't get all the furor nor do I see why her success has propelled some folks into such a funky funk!. I have to agree with the web mail comments posted in the article page. They are right on.
Sorry Tam. I enjoyed reading your post and respect where you're coming from but I guess on this one we'll just have to differ.
BTW, It's so good to see you back here!!!!

Edited by kevd7, 07 October 2008 - 04:25 AM.

[gretski101]

if beyonce did more stuff like this-
i think she did that very well, its just that she dont choose to do that,
she chooses to do more R&B dance sorta stuff,
i dono i think sharon jones isn't pop enough,
amy does have a bit of pop in her, especially rehab, and i think amys music can be loved by everyone, soul lovers, rock and roll lovers, indie lovers, pop lovers,
she is very well rounded, sharon jones, not so much,
but i love sharon jones !

[Alan48]

^ finest thing i've ever seen from beyonce! she and etta james were beautiful together. and that song is a masterpiece of italian-american-polish-jewish songwriting.

[Rockesquirrel]

Amen Tam and Bravo, Dani......you two are amazing. Phil, all is forgiven.

I'm glad for this dialogue. I'm glad for the different POVs, and it wasn't intended to make anyone feel 'race guilt' or 'ruin their day'. To paraphrase my grandma, we all pump through our hearts and veins the color red, no matter what color we are. All of our cultures bring a lot to the menu, each of us should CELEBRATE, our differences. To piggyback Tam, if it stinks to me, I'm calling it out to be flushed.

[AMYstery]

Sooner or later a journalist was going to bring this up, it was inevitable. I think the reason why Amy got less criticism compared to some other artists in the past is because she has always been very "frank" :-P and honest about the music that inspired her. She has mentioned them in almost all her important interviews (Frank Sinatra, Sarah Vaughan, Dinah Washington, Minnie Riperton, Count Basie, Shangri-La's, The Crystals,....). My favorite moment in the record shop-interview is when the interviewer says : " Look The Ronettes, they've got hair like you !" and she corrects him and says "I've got hair like them.". It might seem insignificant but it says a lot about her personality.:smiley:

Also, since it's considered a "revival" of soul/jazz in the perception of many ( even though this great music has always been alive) she isn't stealing someone's limelight. It's not like there are many contemporary musicians complaining "hey she took our sound to get rich and famous while we are still struggling". On the contrary her music allowed millions (me included ) to rediscover an entire universe of sound that they might otherwise have missed.

Plus she also happens to be very talented and write her own songs, has her own style.... She's not an artificial gimmick from a record company that wants to cash in on a new trend. Of course the fact that she was so young and white when she came out with this music made her even more fascinating and unique for the media. But if there wouldn't have been real talent behind her music, the hype would have died down years ago.

Edited by AMYstery, 08 October 2008 - 12:20 PM.

[Lainey]

I was away and missed this whole thread. There's been some very interesting discussions, to say the least. Anyway, even if I don't agree with her analysis of Amy, I can see where she's coming from on a couple of points.

When I read articles like this and hear Tam's and RS's opinions on matters like this (and their life experiences) it is very enlightening to me: because I'm not Black, and I have no idea what it feels like to be Black.

And BTW, The Nation is a great publication - I'm a subscriber and I highly recommend it!

[lyricgenius]

My favorite moment in the record shop-interview is when the interviewer says : " Look The Ronettes, they've got hair like you !" and she corrects him and says "I've got hair like them.". It might seem insignificant but it says a lot about her personality.:smiley:

I felt the same way.