79 replies to this topic

[Cecilia]

[MENTION=2025]what'sinsideher[/MENTION] - I'm amazed that you're so sure about this, I never thought she sang hustler until I read this thread and listened to the song again (and again) until I could hear it. There's obviously no "s" sound in lover, but there is in "finest, handsomest lover" (instead of "finest handsome hust-le-er"). I'm not saying I'm sure that *is* what she sings, that's just what I've always heard listening to the song.

Like you say, it doesn't really change much to the meaning of the song either way.

[what'sinsideher]

And [MENTION=1624]Cecilia[/MENTION] I'm amazed that people don't hear it. I know everyone hears things differently and I also know her enunciation on the song is a bit woozy but that was one of the few clear lines in the song that everyone here seemed to agree on from the beginning, when the first sample was released. To me, it's like someone insisting that she's singing "They tried to make me go to rehab and I said woah, woah, woah". It's just clearly not that. I'm not at all trying to be condescending about it and I hope it's not coming across that way, I'm just really surprised.

[ancre]

Great thread - thank you!

I heard "hustler" and "my hand flicks" and "his housewife" (not this housewife)...

And here's somebody else's explanation of Amy's lyrics:
http://rapgenius.com/Amy-winehouse-between-the-cheats-lyrics#note-529183
When you click the orange lyrics, you can read the comment.

[Cecilia]

@what'sinsideher - don't worry I don't think you're condescending at all. I think because from the first time I heard it I thought she sang "handsomest" rather than "handsome", the word "hustler" did not even enter my mind. I had to listen again and try to ignore my fixation on "handsomest" to hear what you're hearing. Do you see how "-es[t] lo-[v]er" and "[h]us[t]-le-er" sound pretty similar and can easily be confused? I'm from the South East of England by the way, so it's not a language issue in my case - I've never had any trouble understanding Amy's accent when she speaks.

[what'sinsideher]

[MENTION=1624]Cecilia[/MENTION] - Oh of course, I can certainly understand that. There are plenty of songs that I'm that way about. If I mishear a lyric the first time I listen to a song, I usually continue to think of it that way even when I realize it's the wrong lyric. One example that comes to mind is this Toby Keith song where he says "You'd still have my heart" but I heard it as "Gypsy had my heart" when I was a kid and I still sing it that way! So I'm not surprised that people mishear a lyric, I'm just surprised when they still don't hear it when they listen to the song again!

[Cecilia]

[MENTION=2025]what'sinsideher[/MENTION] - "Wish I didn't know now", right? I remember that song

Back on topic - I just don't think I can be 100% certain of the lyric in Between the Cheats because both possibilities seem plausible. Maybe one day we'll get to see copies of Amy's notes in a lyrics book and then we'll all be sure.

[ancre]

I have many doubts like this. Let's take "Like smoke".
CD booklet says:

Like smoke I hung around
And be your balance


...but I hear:

Like smoke I hung around
in the unbalance

What do you think about it?

[Cecilia]

I have many doubts like this. Let's take "Like smoke".
CD booklet says:

Like smoke I hung around
And be your balance


...but I hear:

Like smoke I hung around
in the unbalance

What do you think about it?

I agree the booklet must be wrong there, I'm pretty sure she sings "in the unbalanced" too. I'd love to see the lyrics to these songs in Amy's handwriting...

[Heroxmasox]

@what'sinsiderher To be honest until you said you were not trying to be condescending I thought you were being - although I do accept you are not making an effort to be. Obviously the lyrics are a bit woozy even muzzled so to say that if someone doesnt hear that you think it is their English at fault is condescending both in the assumption and the dismissivness of it.

I have provided you with a compelling reasoned argument as to why I think it's "handsomest lover", you have merely said you are sure it's "handsome hustler", but by using that wording that becomes the only verse without 2 rhyming couples - do you not recognise that you may be hearing it wrong?

---------- Post added at 06:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:40 PM ----------

I agree that it's "unbalance". I cant imagine the girl who wrote "You know Im no good" would suggest she was someone's balance!

[what'sinsideher]

@what'sinsiderher To be honest until you said you were not trying to be condescending I thought you were being - although I do accept you are not making an effort to be. Obviously the lyrics are a bit woozy even muzzled so to say that if someone doesnt hear that you think it is their English at fault is condescending both in the assumption and the dismissivness of it.

I have provided you with a compelling reasoned argument as to why I think it's "handsomest lover", you have merely said you are sure it's "handsome hustler", but by using that wording that becomes the only verse without 2 rhyming couples - do you not recognise that you may be hearing it wrong?

---------- Post added at 06:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:40 PM ----------

I agree that it's "unbalance". I cant imagine the girl who wrote "You know Im no good" would suggest she was someone's balance!

Sorry you feel that way. I wasn't trying to be dismissive with that comment, I was emphasizing how clear that lyric sounds to me and seemingly to most others here. Also, I've seen no compelling argument. Just that you think it fits better and sounds right even though "handomse hustler" rhymes just the same. It would seem that most people that hear this song, both on this forum and outside of this forum, hear "handsome hustler" so I think perhaps you should consider that you might be the one hearing it wrong rather than insisting that everyone else is. But I'm aware that you feel strongly about this and we're not going to agree so I don't see any point in me further discussing it, especially since you feel that I've been condescending. So I'll leave it at that!

[JamaicaAndSpain]

do you not recognise that you may be hearing it wrong?

Wasn't it your suggestion to agree to disagree? There are numerous people on here that hear "hustler" (including me) and others who hear "lover".
I don't think she wanted to write a song with two rhyming couples in each verse. How do you explain the very first verse then? She doesn't sing "you" to rhyme it with "horseshoe", but "ya".
And what about this one: "Cause we all have to lock eyes / And I know there’s my heart beat / There’s a winning secret to pour / And it’s sworn between the cheats"? How do "beat" and "cheatS" and especially "eyes" and "pour" rhyme?


I agree that it is "in the unbalanced" though

[Heroxmasox]

No point? Not with you claiming the last word...

By the way "handsome hustler" does not rhyme just the same! You don't understand how the rhyming scheme works! And by the way, as the linear notes say "handsome lover", I think you will find that most people don't even question it. But those notes are wrong in so many other instances...

You are condescending to me in the extreme and it's objectionable

---------- Post added at 07:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------

Wasn't it your suggestion to agree to disagree? There are numerous people on here that hear "hustler" (including me) and others who hear "lover".
I don't think she wanted to write a song with two rhyming couples in each verse. How do you explain the very first verse then? She doesn't sing "you" to rhyme it with "horseshoe", but "ya".
And what about this one: "Cause we all have to lock eyes / And I know there’s my heart beat / There’s a winning secret to pour / And it’s sworn between the cheats"? How do "beat" and "cheatS" and especially "eyes" and "pour" rhyme?


I agree that it is "in the unbalanced" though

It was - but that was before it was suggested that english wasn't my first language, that I was plain wrong and that there was absolutely no question.

She absolutely did want to write a song with 2 rhyming couples in each verse - that was her genius!
She could achieve that and then make it so personal and meaningful. If you deconstruct any of her lyrics you will find that as well as being clever and meaningful they are formally constructed and that's an important part of the reason they are so good and work so well with melody.

---------- Post added at 07:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:05 PM ----------

It doesn't rhyme just the same, that's my point. It means that that verse does not have the same alliteration - "handsomest lover" means it matches all the others. Because of the linear notes people think it's hustler - does it not dawn on you that there is a compelling argument against your POV - and the "we're with the majority" doesn't provide an argument.

You speak on your own behalf, not "most" listeners
I started off this topic to discuss the lyric - not to have someone question my english, state that they are right without question and then when you have your say you say that you are not going to discuss it. That is condescending! Utterly

Let me be condescending - although English is your native language, I think you are not capable of lateral, creative thought. Think concept!

[what'sinsideher]

Getting angry and insulting me is really not going to help your argument.

[Heroxmasox]

What do you think of the linear notes for Like Smoke?

I never wanted you to be my man
I just need your company
Don't want to get dependent on
Your time or who you spend it on

Or lose the way you love me
Like smoke I hung around
And be your balance


They accurate?

---------- Post added at 07:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:44 PM ----------

I'm not angry... I'm smiling at your lack of understanding of anything beyond your own point of view! I'm amused more than anything.

[Cecilia]

Wow guys, can we just go back to agreeing to disagree on the issue? I don't think anyone meant to be condescending, you're both just very sure of your opinion and pretty stubborn. There's nothing wrong with that, there's just no need to take it personally or to have the final word here.

I agree with @Heroxmasox that Amy's songs tend to be very well structured, both musically and lyrically. The problem is that the rhymes aren't always exact and the line this one's meant to rhyme with isn't very clearly pronounced either. On top of that the album notes clearly aren't to be trusted (as demonstrated in "like smoke") so surely the lyrics are open to interpretation? I was completely sure she sang "handsomest lover", but I still managed to listen to the song again with an open mind and can see how I may be wrong. I'm glad this discussion came along because it's good to question one's assumptions. Let's not make it into an argument.