79 replies to this topic

[JamaicaAndSpain]

What do you think of the linear notes for Like Smoke?

I never wanted you to be my man
I just need your company
Don't want to get dependent on
Your time or who you spend it on

---------- Post added at 07:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:44 PM ----------

I'm not angry... I'm smiling at your lack of understanding of anything beyond your own point of view! I'm amused more than anything.

You always say that people have to listen to the song again to agree with you that she sings "lover". This is the only thing I got from all your posts - the desperate need to persuade all the other users that you are right. So are you any better? No, you can't let it go either.

BTW, I always thought it was "I just needed company", like she didn't want to be with him but needed to be with someone (I'm sure you will tell me to re-listen, but this is the way I hear it).

Getting angry and insulting me is really not going to help your argument.

I thought he insulted me. But you're right

No point? Not with you claiming the last word...

By the way "handsome hustler" does not rhyme just the same! You don't understand how the rhyming scheme works! And by the way, as the linear notes say "handsome lover", I think you will find that most people don't even question it. But those notes are wrong in so many other instances...

You are condescending to me in the extreme and it's objectionable

---------- Post added at 07:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------



It was - but that was before it was suggested that english wasn't my first language, that I was plain wrong and that there was absolutely no question.

She absolutely did want to write a song with 2 rhyming couples in each verse - that was her genius!
She could achieve that and then make it so personal and meaningful. If you deconstruct any of her lyrics you will find that as well as being clever and meaningful they are formally constructed and that's an important part of the reason they are so good and work so well with melody.

---------- Post added at 07:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:05 PM ----------

It doesn't rhyme just the same, that's my point. It means that that verse does not have the same alliteration - "handsomest lover" means it matches all the others. Because of the linear notes people think it's hustler - does it not dawn on you that there is a compelling argument against your POV - and the "we're with the majority" doesn't provide an argument.

You speak on your own behalf, not "most" listeners
I started off this topic to discuss the lyric - not to have someone question my english, state that they are right without question and then when you have your say you say that you are not going to discuss it. That is condescending! Utterly

Let me be condescending - although English is your native language, I think you are not capable of lateral, creative thought. Think concept!

Did you know Amy? No? Then why do you know what she wanted? Come on now.
It's your opinion that she wanted to do it that way, but that's it. You cannot know.

Oh and English isn't my native language, it's German. But I think I still get to have an opinion.

Some people think it's "lover" (your rhyming thing makes sense), others think it's "hustler" (which makes sense regarding the lyrics). Both words could be sung, but we don't know what Amy really sang. So could we just let this go now?

[Heroxmasox]

I have no problem with anyone's opinion.
It's I have been dismissed!

[Elsie]

Deffo says hustler. I am looking at the booklet now to remember what I thought was wrong, but BTC lyrics all look alright. Like Smoke liner notes sound COMPLETELY WRONG to me though. Where did they get those from? Let me put it like this, first are the liner notes, second is what I hear:

I just need your company / I just needed company
Or lose the way you love me / But I lose it when you look at me - this one I'm most unsure of.
I hung around and be your balance / I hung around in the unbalanced - this one is definitely wrong in the liner notes.
the good Samaritan good thespian / the good Samaritan hood thespian
I feel triumph / I feel triumphant
I hope I meet some Monie loves / I hope I meet some Monie Love (DUH?)

I think that's it.

[Winehouse8327]

I agree with those who believe: Hustler! This is what I hear too.

[CreativeAmyCanuckerGal]

Well, since I'm not really familiar with the dialect of Amy's region or most of the UK/Eire for the most part , perhaps what I hear could vary with others....being Canadian, I probably would end up hearing sum other versions, and most of you would think I have quite the accent...actually, I've been mistook for an East Coaster (The Maritimes) a few times, it's the Irish -Canadian -local twang I have.
Some of the lyrics I've read on Amy's Frank/B2B/HT, are kinda slng to me, but I get their meaning, for the most part. This is an interesting topic and interesting points of views...

[Lucky17]

Hey Heroxmasox - I believe you nailed it. She def says LOVER. Thanks for translating this... I've had a tough time with this one and your analysis really made a whole lot of sense. This song makes me miss her so much more.

I love this!!

I'm not beyond convincing here - but I've spent time listening *and* considering the lyrics. Amy's lyrics could often be cryptic, but they always have a sense to them and her use of vocabulary set her apart from her contemporaries.

So with that in mind lets look at the structuring and alliteration alongside the meaning and imagery (and I have a change for verse one)

I would die before divorce you (pronounced - yaou)
I’d take a thousand thumps for my love
Cause ya kissed a lucky horseshoe
Stuck it in my boxin’ glove rhyming of glove and love - you and horse shoe

Clearly the imagery is that despite suggestions of divorce (from others) and being subjected to violence she will protect her love and the horshoe that he kissed is a symbol of that.

Cause anyone who’s seen us
Through our victory and dumb defeats
Knows that I’ll take you to the cleaners
If you come between the cheats

This is a pretty straightforward stanza, furthers the subject of the first - again she will defend it at any cost - she refers to herself as a cheat and sugests that as they are both cheats anyone that suggests he is a cheat must know that she is too.

My husband is the finest, handsomest lover
And he still make this housewife blush
So, I’ll go with him, my hand lowers
I’m sitting on the royal flush

"lover" is important over "hustler"... and I have slowed this right down. "Lover" and "lower" is clear alliteration and allows the rhyming of "blush" and "flush" to flourish. "Lower" is very important in relation to the upcoming imagery of jealous "green eyed" women trying to lure him away and a card game. A game of skill and no chance. She has a "royal flush" but her hand lowers and she sits on it. She will hide what she knows and sees and go along with him.

Women drink him in
Swim in him with green eyes
Then go home and cash the chips you’ve got
And say you’re ready to, oh two bottles
The jack of hearts is my jackpot

And here is the jealousy. Women "drink him in" as they flirt and try to lure him through their jealousy. Literally the green eyed monster. Women trying to sabotage her through him. Then she goes home with him and has the prize (him) - thus cashing the chips she has... they share two bottles (a pair or couple). The jack of hearts is him a the "jack of hearts" aka "knave of hearts" (checked in dictionary) is an unhonest man (lover as it's hearts). He too is a cheat, but still her prize (ie not getting these jealous women back)

Cause we all have to lock eyes
And I know there’s my heart beat
There’s a winning secret to pour
And it’s sworn between the cheats

*This is the stanza I have most difficulty with and I could be convinced that "eyes" in the first line could be hearts"*
Basically the strength of their relation ship is that they recognise they are both "cheats".
The winning secret to pour and swear is vital to the final meaning. "pour" rhymes directly with "sworn" on the next line and not by accident. By pouring their secrets they are sharing them - but only on the proviso that it's a sworn secret... literally between the cheats.


I hope no one thinks I'm being hectoring on this, but I've put quite a bit of time into this since I saw the linear notes (so far off).
With some help from friends I think we have near cracked this - not just in recognising words, but deriving the real meaning.

Folks... this is a wonderful piece of work. Particularly considering where she was at when this was recorded. Listen to that vocal and remember the 007 debacle. For me this is one of her very best songs and should alone help make Lioness be considered as a relevant part of her work!

DO reply with your views!! Have I convinced anyone?

[Birdieava]

i gave my cd away to a friend ... so i can't put this in my ear right now
but i remember hearing HUSTLER ...

btw - this song is brilliant.
one of my favorites as far as lyrics go - for sure.

the production was not my favorite and amys voice is a bit all over but she sounds amazing anyways.

[Heroxmasox]

Thanks. The word LOVER fits sense and structure doesnt it. Also finEST handomEST fits the tempo

---------- Post added at 03:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:17 PM ----------

Oh come on! Dont be so facetious. I dont know Shakespeare and that doesnt reduce my understanding or interpretation of his writing.

Of course a rhyming scheme throughout an entire song is no accident. Likewise she would not leave that verse without the rhyming scheme. Its like suggesting that Leonardo accidently painted La Jaconde into a nice landscape!

The diction is indistinct which is why this cant be proven per se, but there has been no argument for huslter beyond the "thats what i hear ergo I'm right and you mustn't speak good english and dont know Amy" brigade

[anchor]

well, heres my opinion

"my housband is the fine (1) handsome hustler
and he still make this housewive blush
so im holding my hand in his..."
meaning - though her housband is a hastler, he still make her feel good and excited, so shell take him even though his a cheater.. she still holds his hand..


and for the end of the song im really not sure..
i think shes saying
"and they are ready to, to battle
the jack of hearts, is my jackpot"

meaning that theres a lot of other womans fighting over blake, jeluse at thire love, but at the and of the day Amys wining..

"

[JamaicaAndSpain]

[MENTION=2685]Heroxmasox[/MENTION]: See? You're still trying to convince everyone that YOU are right. Let it die, please, let it die...

[Winehouse8327]

@Heroxmasox: See? You're still trying to convince everyone that YOU are right. Let it die, please, let it die...

I agree this is a debate that dragged on. In the booklet of her album is well written: Hustler! If you don't hear the same thing, it's your OPINION. This is a debate that will not end because you can't change those who understand something else. It's a matter of listening and no one will change his mind on what he hears you know? I understand Hustler. You hear lover. That's it! I read the latest posts and really,try to convince others will not change anything. This is what defined a debate. Different people with different ideas. This is not a game where you really have to convince others and insulting if you think they are wrong you know?

As said [MENTION=2242]JamaicaAndSpain[/MENTION], let it die please ! It's a bit annoying to be told that we are all wrong while opinions are divided. You could say, I don't agree and explain your point of view instead of stating that we are wrong then you can not know more than us anyway. Why would you have more right than we?

[Elsie]

The diction is indistinct which is why this cant be proven per se, but there has been no argument for huslter beyond the "thats what i hear ergo I'm right and you mustn't speak good english and dont know Amy" brigade

Arguments? People rely on what they hear. I don't see the point in namedropping and trying to convince everyone otherwise. If that's what you hear, fine, what's the big deal if people don't agree with you...

[MandyP]

That's the beauty of art. It is meant to be interpreted. I hear lover, but I am open to hustler. I may just switch words every time I hear it. One day i'll sing lover and the next day I'll sing hustler. Let's all agree to disagree!

[Cecilia]

That's the beauty of art. It is meant to be interpreted. I hear lover, but I am open to hustler. I may just switch words every time I hear it. One day i'll sing lover and the next day I'll sing hustler. Let's all agree to disagree!

Hear Hear. The voice of reason

[MENTION=2685]Heroxmasox[/MENTION] - you presented your argument clearly and eloquently at the start of this thread before it derailed into a fight. People can read it there and decide if they agree or not. If they don't, surely that's ok? We don't all need to agree to get along.

[Heroxmasox]

Absolutely - And I'm open to discussion as to why it may be one thing and not another - but I got brick walled and dismissed

---------- Post added at 05:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 PM ----------

The issue is not that someone doesn't agree with me by any means. It's the dismissiveness an passive-agressive "oh you musn't speak good english" or that there can be no doubt!